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Author Topic: AVENGERS: END GAME - CAUTION! SPOILERS WITHIN!!!  (Read 1437 times)
Gunslinger
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 09:07:03 AM »

I disagree. Thanos' story basically wrapped up in Infinity War. It was his movie. He accomplished his goal. The end. I know better than anyone that it's a HUGE waste of time and energy to try to convince someone that there might be a different way to look at something. Especially when you are dealing with a zealot like Thanos. He's the greatest mass murderer in the universe. I can't imagine anyone convincing Charles Manson he was wrong. In his mind, he's completely justified and right. Same with the Mad Titan.
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Warpig
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 09:13:17 AM »

But could you not say the same for Darth Vader?

Is not the story of Star Wars the redemption of that character, also a mass murderer?

Again, let me state that Endgame is a fine film, I just feel like the story was weak.

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And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.  _ Revelations 13
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2019, 11:01:44 AM »

I can respect that. I enjoyed our discussion regardless!
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jdv
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 02:27:11 PM »

Movies that FEATURE time travel get to ignore all that, which is why as a plot device, it's weak.

Hard to argue (more on that to come).  

Saw it with the King & Gunz, so a good audience to experience it with.  And there's a lot to like about the movie - the SFX, of which there is so much of that it's essentially an animated movie plus some live action, is great.  Kinda falls apart at the very end for the mega-battle, but by in large, a delight for the eyes and ears.

The cast remains excellent, although Evans and RDJ kinda look a bit tired of it all.  The time travel plot device has it's problems, BUT it is a means by which to let some 30 speaking parts have a chance to interact and wrap the whole thing up.  The comic bits are great, and well spread out.

All in all, it features all the things present in the 23 Marvel movies, great casting, great SFX & sound, great costumes/makeup, lots of comic bits, solid musical score, and - sadly- a lack of a good villain.  

The Marvel movies, except AVENGERS 3, have all suffered from a lack of memorable villains.  Thanos aside, I couldn't name a single one of them, other then the Red Skull and Jeff Bridges, who I assume was playing himself.  It has been one of the great weaknesses of the series.  But those movies still have villains, even if they are fairly forgettable.

AVENGERS 4 may well be unique in that the villain of the film is not new or from the preceding film, but rather the outcome of its predecessor.  Thanos is largely wasted in this film due to the time travel gimmick, and there is no other villain to replace him.  The movie, as set up, is about undoing the events of the previous film, which is inherently anti-climatic.

Part of why INFINITY WAR was so good is that it was so unexpected.  After twenty plus films featuring blah villains, INFINITY WAR delivered Thanos, a villain for the ages, who then shockingly not only bests the heroes but then also wipes out half the universe, including some very lucrative characters.  So, shocking.

But on the other end of that scale is END GAME, where not only do we know about Thanos and his plan, but we know for a certainly that most, if not all, of the dead characters will be back.  Marvel doesn't have the kind of balls to keep 'em all dead.  We know it, and they know we know it.  The time travel macguffin means that there's very little actual new adventuring (at best its a sort of re-tracing of INFINITY WAR by different characters), but instead becomes much more about how the characters feel about the outcome we all know is coming.  The time travel angle is a sort of cheat, and so is bringing in Captain Marvel, a character only seen in 1 other, stand alone, movie.  Even if the role was well written and well cast (its neither), her presence is totally out of place.  Pretty awful really, worse even then the time travel bits.

Make no mistake, the writers know traveling through time was a cheat.  They directly reference by name several other time travel movies, most if not all of which: a) deal with the complexities of time travel better, and b) are better movies.  But they simply did not know another way to wrap it up.  Maybe if they had more time to get high and think about it we'd have a different outcome, but the heat was on to get this in the can fast.  You can almost feel the exhaustion of the writers/directors and SFX crew as the film limps into the end.

This exhaustion and self-awareness follows through all the way to the end credits, where the original Avenger actors sign off ala STAR TREK 6.  While these movies have been spectacularly successful at making money, only one of them - INFINITY WAR - is a four star film (maybe CAPTAIN AMERICA - CIVIL WAR too).  None of them five stars (although I won't fight you too hard on IW), and most - if you're being honest - are little better then the live action movies Disney made in the 70's and 80's.  Not bad films, but nothing that people will care one wit about in 20 years.  STAR TREK's signing seemed justified - the actors invented those roles; would not exist but for them, and weren't quitting the series so much as they has simply aged out of it.  The LORD OF THE RINGS actors don't "sign" themselves out, and those movies took just as long to make and were better as a whole.  So just a bit weird and a bit too much chutzpah for my tastes.

In the end, Marvel fans were going to be happy with just about anything that didn't outright shit the bed, which END GAME does not do.  But it is a full star weaker then the previous film, and maybe even 2 stars worse.  It does not have some of the highlight adult parts that RETURN OF THE JEDI had, like Luke saving his father and Vader killing the Emperor.  END GAME is fun, but is awfully, terribly, long and awfully self aware of itself and it's "importance".  That would have been OK is they had delivered an original adventure story, but they don't.  It's a good pop corn chomper, but never reaches the heights of INFINITY WARS, which is a let down.

BOTTOM LINE:  3 "how about more Thanos and less Captain Marvel?" out of 5 stars
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 11:36:54 PM by jdv » Logged

Sayonara  suckers!
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